Richard Oliver

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Posts by Richard Oliver

• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that one dedicates their lives to Jehovah and then symbolize that dedication in water baptism. Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that as a united people they too have dedicated the organization to Jehovah God and for the advancement of the work that he provided those that profess to be his witnesses to be. When one chooses to stop identifying themselves as a member of that organization formally, there has to be actions to protect those that continue to want to associate with that organization from any possible bad influence. Because Witnesses cannot read hearts and fully understand why people want to formally leave that organization they have made a policy that all individuals who take that step must be treated the same. That is why there is no announcement of why someone DA themselves or was DF, because that may not be the full reason why someone chose that or why the elders decided that the person was no longer repentant, the only important part is that the announcement is made that they are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. These individuals may be very good and fine people, but no one can read or know the full story of why someone chose to make that decision of the formal removal of themselves from that organization. The reason stated in the formal letter may not be the real and true reason and may want to encourage others to leave or they may not, again it is something that no one can know for sure. And again it is a policy that anyone regardless of the reason, including if they are a victim of child abuse, is treated in the same way, again because no one can fully know why they chose to do so.

  it is also the fact that Witnesses do not believe in interfaith activities. Witnesses who get baptized after they were part of another religion is encouraged, not sure if required, to formally remove themselves from the other religion. Witnesses believe that formal removal of a religion's rolls releases them from that religion's policies and guilt before God. So they have a formal way of removing people who don't want to be witnesses anymore.

  Again it doesn't matter, what the answer is, you won't accept it as being a valid one.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Yes Outlaw because computers never glitch. It is always that I am an idiot correct.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Because they have either committed a subsequent sin that would require disfellowshipping or they have chosen to disassociate themselves. They are treating everyone the same when it comes to disassociation. NO ANSWER EVER WOULD BE SOMETHING YOU ACCEPT.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Also Dubstepped:

  Does "There is none so blind as he who shall not see." apply to you because you were one of the people who claimed that Watchtower does not consider child pornoraphy as child abuse even though it is proven in their own policy that they do consider it as child abuse. Will you admit that you are wrong.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  And dubstepped the rest of that scripture from the NIV reads:

  9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sisterc but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

  12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”d

  In verse 13 it says expel those wicked person from among you. It also says that you can't judge those that aren't amongst you. So yes the congregation has a responsibility to expel those that are within the congregation that doesn't live by their standard. I have been expelled, I don't like it but I have accepted it.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  So Dubstepped:

  You are saying that it is wrong for someone who is a fornicator which would include adulterer to be considered that forever. So if you cheat on your wife, she must forgive you and not divorce you for that, because you only cheated on her once so you are not an adulterer forever just for that single time.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  You talk about that one cannot say just because the a person who has been abused or has gone through a tramatic event is still convicted and punish for a crime you cannot equate that to a sin or shunning someone.

  According to the VA PTSD for veterans can lead to the following family issues:

  Male Veterans with PTSD are more likely to report marital or relationship problems, higher levels of parenting problems, and generally poorer family adjustment than Veterans without PTSD. (2,6,7) Research has shown that Veterans with PTSD are less self-disclosing and expressive with their partners than Veterans without PTSD. (8) PTSD Veterans and their wives have also reported a greater sense of anxiety around intimacy. (7) Sexual dysfunction also tends to be higher in combat Veterans with PTSD than in Veterans without PTSD. (9) It has been posited that diminished sexual interest contributes to decreased couple satisfaction and adjustment. (10)

  
  

  So should these indviduals get a pass for everything because they have experienced negative effects, even though they aren't committing crimes. Should there marriage mates have to suffer through all the ordeals if they aren't strong enough themselves to deal with what is happening. Should children be required to suffer through a parent's alcholism or other negative effects from that disorder just because it isn't technically classified as abuse. The list goes on and on. Should an employeer have to suffer through a subpar employee because of the event.

  Yes, victims of child abuse do suffer for a life time and may never recover from that experience. But that does not negate completely how society expects them to act in general, they are still required to meet normal social contracts with general society.
  
  
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  And btw the reason for the same posts is that the site delayed the posts and it kept on repeating the same post.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  And JWs feel that their reasons are good as well to shun. You obviously believe that there are some legitimate reasons to shun someone, such as them being a murderer or a child molester. Now it comes down to what those reasons are.

  Also you just have the account that Ray Franz says was the reason for him being DF, that could be the reason and it may not be. You don't know the true reason nor do I. That is the problem with anecdotical evidence, it is just taking someone's word for it. That is why I qualified my statement by saying that my experience is this, it may not be everyone's experience but that is my experience. My experience is true for me but not for everyone.
• 
  347

  ARC - Case Study 54 - All Exhibits have been released

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  all exhibits for case study 54, jehovah's witnesses and watchtower, have been released by the arc.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney.

  exhibit list.

  joint statement of o'brien and spinks.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Richard Oliver

  Thank you orphan crow for that wonderful back and forth. Now where in the letter to the body of elders does it say you will contact the service department first? Or does it state that the legal department will be contacted first to give legal advice based on the law. That advice would be dependent on applicable laws of the jurisdiction in which the offense took place. Following legal advice the caller would be transfered to the service department to answer any spiritual or congregational issues. So again this is a two step call, first legal advice to ensure all laws are followed then legal advice.